Dayslayer Podcast

Keith Krikorian

Episode Summary

Today my guest is Keith Krikorian, a 10th Planet Jiu-Jitsu black belt, 2X ADCC Veteran, ADCC trials champion, and fellow Armenian.

Episode Transcription

 And  something  I've  realized  is  like  shortcuts  don't  do  not  exist  in  this  sport.  Like  there's  no  free  rides  like  You  you  we  see  it  all  the  time.  There's  a  white  or  blue  belt  who  is  so  athletic  They  get  so  good  so  fast  But  and  they  get  maybe  get  promoted  very  fast  or  they  have  very  good  competition  results  very  fast  Once  they  get  the  black  purple  belt,

let's  even  say  it  It  drops  fast  like  like  they  have  they  have  to  develop  different  like  they  have  to  actually  work  on  their  weaknesses  right  right?  Whereas  they  didn't  have  to  when  they  were  white  or  blue -belt,

you  know?  It  could  be  said  about  guys  who  are  taking  steroids  and  they  see  like  a  massive  gains,  maybe  even  competitively,  your  body  starts  to  break  down.

I  don't  know  a  whole  lot  about  steroids,  but  I  just  see  it  like  your  body  starts  to  really,  really  dip  and  like  the  more -  - Your  body  dips  once  you  go  off  or  even  when  you're  on?

- Yeah,  I  just  think -  I  just  think  your  body  fades  faster  I  don't  I  that's  what  I  that's  what  I've  noticed  Welcome  to  the  day  slayer  podcast  where  you  and  I  discover  the  good  life  by  listening  to  bjj  practitioners  from  all  walks  of  life  My  name  is  patrick  donabedean  A  10th  planet  jujitsu  black  belt  and  a  white  belt  and  so  much  else  To  work  on  that  today.

I'm  joined  by  keith  krikorian  a  10th  planet  jujitsu  black  belt  Two -time  ADCC  veteran  ADCC  trials  champion,  and  fellow  Armenian.  Before  we  get  rolling,

please  hit  the  subscribe  button  wherever  you  listen  to  podcasts.  Keith  Krakorian,

welcome.  Thank  you.  Thank  you  for  having  me  here.  Yeah,  thanks  for  coming  on.  So  I  think  the  thing  that  strikes  me  most  about  you,  you  and  why  I  wanted  to  talk  to  you  so  much  on  this  fourth  episode  of  the  Day  Slayer  podcast  is  because  this  is  my  opinion,

you  have  a  kill  switch  and  you,  I've  always,  from  every  conversation  I've  had  with  you  and  all  the  time  we  spent  together  and  your  presence  online,

everything  is  like,  you  are  the  nicest.  nicest  one  of  the  nicest  guys  I've  ever  met  almost  to  a  fault  like  I've  sometimes  they're  like  sitting  at  dinner  or  we're  we've  been  hanging  out  I  always  feel  like  I  want  to  give  you  brotherly  advice  Like  whether  it's  because  you  turned  on  compliments  or  because  you're  just  like  yeah  You  just  you  just  always  like  you  know  you're  just  always  making  sure  the  other  person  feels

comfortable  and  and  And  yeah,  you're  just  like  you  get  you  give  it  off  the  aura  aura,  but  as  far  as  like  trying  to  big  brother  and  be  like,  Hey,  like,

you  know,  be,  you  know,  be,  be  harder.  You  go  out  there  and  you  absolutely  like  destroy  people.  Like  you're  one  of  the  winningest  competitors  I've  ever  seen  your  prolific.  And  you've  had  some  like  major  victories.

So  what  I  want,  you  had  like  major  victories  at  the  top  level  of  the  sport.  And,  and  I  think  you're  a  future  ABCC  champion.  And  so  what  I  want  to  know  is  like,  am  I  right?

Do  you  have  like  a  distinctive  kill  switch  or  are  you  just  this  kind  of  like  lovable  killer?  Like,  I  don't  know,  like  Marcelo  Garcia  or  something.  - Yeah,  maybe  it'd  be  similar  to  that.

I  would  say  like,  you  know,  what  I  do  tap  into,  you  know,  subconsciously  while  I'm  competing  is  so  different  than  who  I  am.

am  outside  of  the  match.  I  only  get  to  be  this  alter  ego  for  the  length  of  the  match,  and  then  I  feel  like  life  goes  back  to  normal.

Even  there  are  glimpses  of  my  kind  of  more  easy -going  type  of  my  personality  in  matches,  but  for  the  most  part,

like,  I'm...  so  focused  on  the  task  at  hand  because  I  feel  like  that's  just  what  the  situation  calls  for  you  know  And  I  you  know,  I  would  say  like  I'm  I'm  just  generally  very  adaptable  like  if  if  I  were  to  be  in  a  situation  That  would  it  would  be  inappropriate  to  be  you  know  like  To  be  kind  of  happier  go  lucky,

then  I  probably  Would  you  know  adapt  adapt  to  whatever  the  situation  called  for  you  know  Was  there  a  specific  like  experience  in  your  life  or  or  just  like  another  sport  you  played  or  something  that  like  Train  that  in  you  or  gave  you  the  re  like  the  awareness  that  like  you  have  to  have  those  two  modes  No,

I  don't  know.  I  don't  know  what  it  was  maybe  you  know  like  Partially  probably  just  like  your  general  social  Like  Acclimation  being  a  child  or  being  like  a  teenager  even  you  know  like  you  do  kind  of  have  to  read  the  room  a  little  bit  like  there's  times  where  you  Are  with  a  certain  person  and  you  can  be  you  can  be  yourself.

You  can  just  be  you  know  like  Stupid  and  weird  and  funny  or  whatever  and  there's  other  times  where  like  you're  just  meeting  a  person  or  like  you're  with  you  know  So  many  needed  need  to  be  act  a  little  bit  more  professional  with  like  you  need  to  be  able  to  adapt  to  that  too  be  inappropriate  for  you  to  be  You  know,

you're  like  weird  yourself  around  that  person  So  I  would  say  like  you  know  for  the  most  part  like  I'm  trying  to  stay  true  to  who  I  am  But  like  I  will  scale  it  back  if  I'm  you  know  in  a  competition  or  if  I'm  you  know  out  with  my  family  You  know  or  if  I'm  you  know  meeting  someone  for  the  first  time  Maybe  or  if  I'm  in  like  you  know  some  sort  of  professional  type  Is  setting  you  know,

I'm  able  to  scale  back  as  far  as  the  competition  goes  like,  you  know  This  on  my  mind  is  like  for  sure  Be  be  better  like  be  be  then  this  person  like  like  fight  this  person,

you  know  Like  do  what  I  can  to  win  this  match  and  that  usually  requires  a  little  bit  more  focus  and  a  little  bit  more  Like  aggressive,  you  know  aggression  then  then  my  normal  day  to  day  would  require,

you  know?  So,  yeah,  I'd  say,  yeah,  I'd  say  I  do  tap  into  that  for  four  matches  and  stuff,  you  know,  but  generally  where  I  learned  that  was  probably  just,  you  know,

maybe,  maybe  doing,  you  know,  martial  arts  growing  up  or  maybe  it  was  just,  you  know,  like  I  said,  just  general  social  affirmation,  you  know,  coming  in.

coming  up.  Okay.  I  want  to  do,  I  want  to  probe  a  little  bit  deeper  into  your  childhood  upbringing  that  because  I  think  there,  there's  got,  I  bet  there's  some  gold  in  there.

But  first,  but  first,  let's  keep  it  with  jujitsu.  Um,  one  of  the  most  remarkable  like  story  arcs  of  your  career,  but  also  just  like  jujitsu  in  general  in  the  past  five  years  has  been  your,

your,  uh,  record  at  ADCC  trials  where  you,  I  believe,  correct  me  if  I'm  wrong,  but  you  came  in  second  place  at  three  trials  in  a  row  from  like  2019,

2020  or  2021.  Uh,  and  then,  and  then  finally  I  was  there  live.  You,  you,  uh,  you  got  that  number  one  spot  heel  hooking  Josh  Cisneros  and,

uh,  and  punch  your  ticket  there.  to  ADCC  2021,  I  believe  it  was,  or  yeah,  or  yeah,  something  like  that.  - I  would  have  been  in  2022,

yeah,  yeah,  yeah.  - It's  off  'cause  of  COVID.  I  was  stuck  on  the  odd  numbers  for  a  long  time.  - Yes,  yeah,  yeah.  - So,  for  most  people,  getting  that  far  and  then  coming  up  short  three  times  in  a  row  just  is  really  demoralizing  was...

Where  was  your  head  at  going  into  that  fourth  attempt  at  it?  And  like,  yeah,  tell  me  about  that,  like  the  ups  and  downs  of  that  story  arc.  - Yeah,

I  mean,  I  could  see  people  viewing  it  that  way.  It  never  really  felt  like  that  to  me.  Like,  I  was,  even  when  I  was  losing  consistently,

you  know,  yeah,  it  was  definitely  a  bummer.  but  like  It  was  a  win  for  me  because  like  I  had  I  Battled  through  a  lot  to  be  there  and  like  I  just  the  fact  that  I  was  there  in  general  was  kind  of  a  testament  to  How  bad  I  wanted  it,

you  know,  like  a  lot  of  people  would  have  maybe  sat  it  out  A  lot  of  people  would  have  probably  like  just  given  up  or  whatever  You  know,  I'm  not  I'm  not  positive  that  that  seems  like  a  weird  idea  to  me  But  I'm  sure  people  would  have  maybe  you  know  done  that  but  I  just  couldn't  in  good  conscience  Give  up  on  myself  like  that  like  it's  that's  a  that's  a  mental  cop  out  in  itself  You  know  because  I  want  to  see  how

good  I  can  be  and  I  want  to  see  You  know  Yeah,  I  would  like  to  see  if  I  could  win  it,  you  know,  and  and  you  know  generally  I  think  like  coming  so  close  so  many  times  gave  me  more  confidence  than  than  not,

you  know  Um  And  a  lot  of  those  matches.  I  was  very  close  to  winning.  So  like,  you  know  Do  you  feel  like  Yeah,  I'm  sorry  to  cut  you  off  But  I'm  just  curious  in  those  in  those  and  by  the  way  just  for  anyone  listening  It  doesn't  know  like  Keith  was  winning  a  ton  of  matches  In  between  all  that  like  he  had  to  win  like  four  or  five  matches  a  lot  of  time  to  get  to  that  final  that  that  final  match  Uh  So,

so  yeah,  I  can  see  why  you  were  like,  felt  encouraged  kind  of  the  whole  time  and  you  can  see  you're  getting  closer.  Do  you  feel  like  though,  what  was  there  any  kind  of  mental  breakthrough  that  helped  you  break  through  in  that  fourth  match  that  like  maybe  in  those  first  one,

two  or  three,  you  like,  you  said  yourself,  you  came  really  close.  Was  there  anything  like  you  had  it?  And  then  there  was  like,  maybe  some  kind  of  like,  I  don't  know,  self -sabotage  or  something?

Or  you  just  really  feel  like  the  better  man  won  each  of  those  times  and  you  just  had  to  get  better  for  the  fourth  time?  Yeah.  I  mean,  it's  possible  that  the  better  man  won.  And  it  is  possible  that  like  in  a  lot  of  matches  that  I  won,

I  wasn't  necessarily  even  the  better  guy.  I  just  I  got  lucky  or,  you  know,  things,  things  happen  in  my  favor.  or  I  took  advantage  of  a  moment  or  a  scramble  or  whatever  You  know,  but  it  wasn't  necessarily  a  match.

I  should  have  won.  Um,  I'm  aware  of  that  as  well.  You  know,  so  like  I  Would  say  the  big  difference  between  between  all  those  matches  and  there's  something  that  I  like  was  starting  to  realize  You  know  later  down  the  line  It's  like  I  was  just  like  I  was  just  starting  to  become  a  little  bit  more  comfortable  with  who  I  am  You  know  and  like  the  happier  that  I  I  felt  I  was  and  the  half  year  that  I  was  like  starting

to  be  day  to  day  was  like  helping  me,  you  know,  realize  a  lot  of  my  potential  and  a  lot  of  my  goals.  And,  you  know,  I  feel  like  each  time  I  was  like,  I  was  discovering  a  little  bit  more  of  who  I  was  and  like  why  I  was  doing  what  I  was  what  I'm  doing.

And,  and  I  was  like  enjoying  the  process  a  lot  more.  And  then  the  last  time  was  just,  I  was  just  starting  to  like,  I  think  I  was  just  starting  to  really  be  day  to  day.  things  and  like,  I  didn't  really  care  if  something  was  negative,

like  I  just  kind  of  pushed  it  out  and  like,  I  didn't  let  it  beat  me  down  the  same  way  I  would  when  I  was,  you  know,  it  would  have  been  the  past,  you  know,  and  I  think  that  just  really  helped  my  results  and  more  so  than  any  technical,

you  know,  progression  that  I'd  made  or  any,  you  know,  you  know,  just  like  breakthrough  I'd  made  in  my,  my  game.  I  think  it  was  more  so  just  who  I  was  becoming  as  a  person  and  how  how  I  was  letting  that  help  you  know  push  me  to  be  a  better  competitor  and  you  know  not  that  that  was  my  intention  I  just  wanted  to  be  happy  and  and  I  think  it  just  you  know  being  having  good  competitive  results  was  kind  of  a  biker

work  to  that  yeah  that  makes  me  think  how  like  in  this  in  this  what's  called  fighting  adjacent  like  world  we  live  in,  you  know,

we're,  we're  a  round  a  bunch  of  fighters  all  the  time.  And,  and  we,  we  kind  of,  yeah,  and  we'll  just,  we'll  just  call  it  due  to  fighting,  even  though  there's  no  punch  and  kicks.  There  is  this,

there  is  this  kind  of  hardcoreness  that  you're  not,  it's  not  really  necessary  to  be  happy.  It's  kind  of  win,

win,  do  like  work  hard  and  win,  work  hard  and  win.  And  if  you  lose,  fine,  like  pick  yourself  back  up  and  win.  And  like,  there's  not  much  tension  paid  to,  or  yeah,

just  still  like,  finding,  pursuing  growth  outside  of  the  mats.  And  that's  like  a  big,  that's  a  major,  that's  a  major  mission  of  mine.  mine.  Because  I  think  the  original  hope  of  Jujitsu  and  what  gets  sold  a  lot  is  that,

you  know,  just  signing  up  for  Jujitsu  and  training  hard  and  training  a  lot  is  going  to  fulfill  you.  And,  and  what  was,  and  what  was  taught  to  us  millennials  was  that,

you  know,  if  you,  if  you  follow  your  passion,  you  make  your  passion  career,  you'll  automatically  be  happy.  But  that,  that  joy,  that  happiness  like  in  heaven  is  not  automatic.  I  followed  my  passion  and  I  still  wasn't  happy.

I  had  to  figure  out  joy  and  happiness  and  oneness  and  wholeness  outside  of  it.  Yeah.  100%.  No,  I  mean,  and  yeah,  there  is  like  this  expectation  that  like  you  sign  it  for  jujitsu,

you  start  doing  jujitsu,  you  get  go  to  jujitsu,  that'll  make  you  happy.  That'll  save  your  life,  right?  But  that's  just  not  what  it  is.  It's  all  the  intangibles  that  we  don't  think  about.  It's  like  the  sense  of  community.

community.  It's  like  the  self -discipline.  It's  like  the  like,  you  know,  self -actualization.  It's  like  all  the  little  things  in  between  that  like  that's  what  improves  your  life.

That's  what,  but  you  could  find  that  from  anything.  So  that  doesn't  have  to  be  jujitsu.  It  just  jujitsu  seems  to  be  a  good  catalyst  for  that.  But  it  could  be  anything.  It  could  be  any  hobby.  It  could  be  any  hobby  that  doesn't  even  require,

that  doesn't  make  any  difference  in  your  life.  world.  It  could  be  like  skating  or  surfing  or  walking  or  hiking.  Like  it  could  be  something  like  that,

but  it's  just  like  something  that  you  can  use  to,  I  think  like,  you  know,  I  don't  know,  facilitate  some  growth  within  yourself  and  some,

you  know,  some  mindfulness  and  some  like,  you  know,  presence  and  like,  I  think  that's,  just,  like,  part  of  what  jujitsu  does,  but  it's  not  necessarily,  you  know,

like,  an  arm  bar  that  does  that.  It's,  you  know,  it's  the  amalgamation  of  everything  that  makes  up  jujitsu.  Yeah.  Yeah,  it  certainly  checks  a  lot  of  boxes  in  the  physical  realm  and  the  community  in  terms  of,

like,  mental  agility  too,  like,  problem  solving.  But  yeah,  they're  for  it.  So  one  thing  I'll  show,  because  I  want  to  hear  from  you,  but  one  thing  I'll  show  personally,  just  just  to  just  to  make  it  less  weird,

maybe  is  like  a  weird  to  share  is  like  when  I  was  at  when  I  was  in  my  like  the  lowest  pit,  I  went  to  I  did  talk  therapy.

And  for  quite  a  while,  and  I  had  to  talk  to  a  bunch  of  different  people  and  like  find  the  reference  in  the  talk  to  but  that  was  one  thing.  thing,  not  the  only  thing,  but  it  was  one  thing  that  helped  me,  uh,  helped  me  rebound  and  like,

and  find,  yeah,  footing  and,  and  feel  like  I  was  on  in  a  set.  Uh,  and  that  was  like  after  I'd  had  like,  you  know,  Jujutsu  had  become  a  big  thing  for  me.  Um,

so  I'm  curious  if  there's  anything  you  did  off  the  mats,  maybe  it  was  therapy,  but  it  could  have  been  something  else.  I  just  wanted  to  put  that  out  there  to  give  you.  just  a  little  bit  more  freedom  to  share.

Is  there  anything  that  you  did  specifically  that  helped  you  kind  of  reach  this  new  level  that  you're  talking  about?  Yeah,  man.  I  mean,  I  was  in  therapy  my  entire  life.  Like  since  I  was  a  kid,

I  had  so  many  issues.  Like  I  was  just  such  a  troubled  child  and  I  couldn't  tell  you  why  really.  Like  I  had  great  parents,  great  siblings,  great,  you  know.

community  around  me.  I  was  I  went  to  a  nice  enough  school.  I  had  what  I  considered  to  be  good  friends  I  I  was  hard  for  me  to  make  friends  of  course,  but  like  um  I  was  just  a  yeah,

I  was  just  generally  very  troubled  kid.  And  so  like  I  was  in  and  out  of  therapy  Well,  I  was  just  no  in  therapy  my  you  know,  but  with  different  counselors  my  entire  up  until  college,  right?

And  I  was  just  a  troubled  kid  where  you  sorry  to  cut  you  off  though  Did  you  mean  by  that  like  you  were  getting  a  lot  of  fights  or  were  you  just  like  not  studying,  not  going  to  school?  - I  was  doing  a  lot  of  bad  things  for  sure.

Like  I  was  picking  fights.  I  was,  you  know,  doing,  you  know,  less  hardcore  drugs.  Like  I  was  smoking  or  just  rebellious  things.  - Okay.  - Like  things  like  that.  But  it  was  like  just  mentally  like  I  was  very  troubled.

Like  I  wasn't  happy  yet.  I  don't  remember  a  single  day  of  my  childhood  where  I  was  truly,  truly  happy.  It  would  be  like  consistent.  happy.  I  just,  I  always  had  this  like  nagging  depression  was  eating  away  at  me.

And  I  didn't  really  know  what  the  solution  of  that  was.  And  I  couldn't  even  verbalize  it  to  any  counselor  that  I  was  seeing.  So  it  was  just  me,  you  know,  balancing  from  counselor  to  counselor,  hoping  someone  wouldn't  understand  me  and  maybe  could  pull  this  out  of  me,

but  no  one  could.  And  at  a  certain  point  I  had  to  kind  of  accept  and  I  didn't  realize  this  until  after  I  stopped  therapy  and  after  I,  I  um  you  know  I  don't  want  to  stop  but  like  you  know  put  it  on  hold  right  um  and  relied  less  on  that  uh  as  an  average  like  you  know  completely  fixed  me  as  a  person  and  then  I  kind  of  just  I  looked  within  myself  a  little  bit  and  like  kind  of  asked  myself  the  questions  like  you

know  is  it  because  you  know  I  feel  like  I  can't  be  happy  for  some  reason  or  is  it  because  I  am  I  am  not  I  am  not  making  myself  happy  happy  like  I'm  actually  like  It's  just  couldn't  doesn't  matter  where  I  am  in  life.

It's  like  What  was  I  was  I  not  doing  the  right  things  to  make  myself  happy  and  that  kind  of  seemed  to  be  what  it  was  I  was  just  I  was  just  wasn't  taking  care  of  myself  wasn't  like  being  present  I  wasn't  being  mindful  or  grateful  or  or  you  know,

wasn't  wasn't  caring  about  other  people  as  much  as  I  should  have  you  know  And  like  and  that  was  that  was  making  me  unhappy  and  it  was  less  like  like  you  know  this  like  predestined  predetermined  thing  that  was  I  could  never  shake  you  know  um  I  just  I  figured  out  that  it  was  more  sort  of  like  me  and  um  and  the  habits  that  I  was  keeping  and  like  the  the  um  maybe  just  the  mindset  that  I  was  carrying  that  was  like

really  holding  me  back  and  uh  You  know  not  to  say  I'm  completely  optimized  now,  you  know,  I  still  I'm  still  working  on  it,  but  I  just  like  I  don't  feel  bogged  down  by  depression  every  second  of  the  day.

And  I  didn't  have  to  take  any,  you  know,  medication  to  get  that  way.  I  just  I  just  made  a  lot  of  like  small  changes  in  my  life.  You  know,  I  just  take  care  of  myself  better.

I'm  more,  you  know,  forgiving  of  myself  like  that  was  a  huge  one.  Obviously,  we're  all  kind  of  like,  I  feel  like  we  can  weigh  ourselves  down  by.  by  the  mistakes  we've  made  in  the  past  and  like  really  hate  ourselves,

you  know,  and  that  was,  that  was  something  that  was  really  weighing  on  me.  And  I  let  go  of  that,  you  know,  I  like,  I  understand  that  like,  I'm  not  the  same,  the  person  that  I  was,  the  person  that  I  might  not  have  liked,

you  know,  um,  uh,  you  know,  my  past.  I,  I,  I'm,  I'm  a  work  in  progress  and  I'm,  and  I'm,  and  I'm  not,  you  know,  I'm  not  uh,

I'm  not  perfect,  like  I  said,  but  I'm,  I'm  like,  uh,  really  trying  to  be,  to  be  better.  And  I  know  who  I  am  deep  down.  I'm  not,  I'm  not  a  bad  person  and  I  don't  even  care  about  the  people  around  me  and  I,

uh,  but  I  had  to  look  out  for  myself  first.  You  know,  like  I  had  to  make  sure  that  I  was  okay.  I  couldn't  be  pouring  out  of,  you  know,  an  empty  cup,  like  I  needed  to,  to  figure  all  these  things  out.  And  then  once  I  did,

I  mean,  I  really  feel  like  my  relationships  with  everyone  else.  else  like  improved  tenfold  you  know  I  feel  like  now  I'm  much  closer  with  my  family  I'm  much  closer  with  my  friends  much  closer  with  you  know  my  teammates  or  whoever  right  and  I  can  I  can  be  there  more  there  for  people  than  I  was  when  I  was  you  know  just  like  just  constantly  struggling  with  you  know  things  that  I  you  know  that  shouldn't  have  been  holding

me  back  as  much  as  they  were  yeah  that's  such  an  apt  metaphor  especially  for  for  someone  who  is  a  kind  of  a  naturally  generous,  kind  person  is  like,

you  can't  pour  for  an  empty  cup.  That's  something  that  a  lot  of,  not  everyone  needs  to  hear  that,  because  some  people  are  just  not,  not  that  generous  to  start  with,  but,  but  yeah,  to  know  that  you  can't  pour  for  an  empty  cup,

that's,  you  know,  it's  similar  to  the  whole  like,  you  got  to  put  on  your  own  oxygen  mask  first  type  of  analogy.  Yeah.  And  so  when  you  think  about  that,

was  it  more,  would  you  say  that  because  it  sounds  like  you  gain  this  what  separated  you  from  childhood  to  adulthood?  And  I  don't  mean  that  like  when  you  turned  18,  I  mean  like  when  you  went  from  feeling  stuck  to  then  feeling  like  you  had  agency.

It  seemed  like  you  had  hope  you  had  a  hope  like,  oh,  I  have  some,  I  have  some  amount  of  control  of  over  this,  or  at  least  I  can  manage  this  and  feel  like  I'm,  I'm,  yeah,

on  a  trajectory  upward.  So  would  you  say  those,  and  you  talked  about  habits,  would  you  say  those  habits  are  more,  were  more  started  out  more  external  or  more  internal,

meaning  like  the  habit  of  your  thoughts  and  like  taking  your  thoughts  captive  versus  like,  you  know,  making  sure  to  wake  up  at  a  certain  time  or  making  sure  to  like,  you  know,  you  know,

you  know,  say  yes  or  no  to  to,  you  know,  positive  or  negative  influence  is  in  your  life.  Yeah,  no,  I  would  say  a  lot  of  them  were  external  for  sure.  I  mean  like  it  was  it  was  simple  things  like  making  sure  I  get  enough  sleep  making  sure  that  I'm  eating  the  right  foods,

being  conscious  of  what  makes  me  feel  good  and  what  makes  me  feel  bad  if  it's  like,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,

you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you  know,  you

know,  you  up  late,  binging  TV  or  video  games  or  whatever.  Or  getting  to  sleep,  you  know,  having  a  good  not  good,  you  know,  balanced  diet,

getting  up  early,  having  like  a  like  a  mindful,  you  know,  morning  routine  and  not  just  just,  you  know,  hopping  on  the  internet  and,  you  know,  reading  whatever  news  was  going  to  upset  me  that  day,

you  know,  it  was  things  like  that.  So  it  was  external  for  sure.  And  then  once  I  kind  of  like,  I  started  to  recognize  what  was  like  making  me  feel  good  or  bad,

I  could  kind  of  optimize  from  there.  And  then  I  was  like,  I  just  felt  like  I  could  see  a  lot  clearer  and  I  could  think  a  lot  clearer  and  I  could  like  really  understand,  okay,

like  here  are  some  things  like  that  I  need  to  change  or  that  there  are  some  reasons  why.  I  need  to  change  or  you  know  what  um  what  I  think  I  do  well  but  is  like  um  maybe  not  being  uh  brought  out  of  me  as  much  as  I  as  I  wish  it  would  you  know  and  uh  yeah  so  it  was  a  combination  of  all  those  things  you  know  um  like  I  said  those  like  external  factors  and  then  like  the  internal  stuff  too  like  I  had  to  really

want  to  improve  my  life  like  for  a  while  I  just  I  was  gonna  just  relying  on,  I  don't  know,  maybe,  you  know,  other  people  to  do  that  for  me  or  other  things,

right?  Like  just  some  good  news  that  would  pop  out  of  this  clear  blue  skies  that  I  didn't  earn,  you  know?  I  was  just  hoping  that  would  happen,  right?  But  like,  it  came  down  to  me,

like  I  need  to  hold  myself  accountable  and  like  make  sure  that  I'm,  you  know,  actually  trying  to  be,  to  be  better,  you  know?  know,  and  yeah,  is  it  hard  to  do  all  that  with  a  heavy,

you  seem  to  have  a  heavy  travel  schedule  with  your  competition  career  and  seminars.  I  personally  don't  do  a  ton  of  traveling  for  that  reason,  because  for  me,  setting  and  structure  are  like,

are  vital  for  my  personal,  mental,  mental  fitness,  mental  health.  And,  and  so  I,  I  do  travel,  but  like  I'm  I  that's  part  of  the  reason  why  I  stopped  competing  to  be  honest  it's  because  I  that  interruption  those  interruptions  were  uh  played  havoc  on  my  mind  and  so  you've  managed  to  sustain  a  you  know  long  competition  career  because  we  kind  of  started  together  and  we  were  doing  even  some  of  that  traveling  together  uh

yeah  yeah  and  then  and  then  but  yeah  you've  continued  it  whereas  I've  I've  stopped  and  so  I'm  curious  how  you've  how  you've  managed  If  that  structure  matters  to  you  or  or  and  if  so,

how  do  you  manage  that?  Yeah,  yeah,  I  mean  it  definitely  does  and  it's  funny  because  I  was  totally  ignorant  to  it  when  when  we  were  traveling  you  and  I  and  when  we  were  going  around  competing  and  and  you  know  Doing  things  like  that  like  I  was  not  conscious  of  it  at  all  like  I  just  I  had  no  semblance  of  of  anything  revolved  around  structure  or  routine  or  healthy  habits.

I  would  just  train  all  the  time.  I  would  just  do  whatever  I  could  to  train.  I  would  push  my  body  so  far  beyond  its  limits  and  my  mind  as  well.

And  that's  probably  a  big  reason  why  I  was  going  crazy  a  little  bit.  And  now,  yeah,  the  travel  makes  it  hard  for  sure.  sure.  Like  I  also  rooted  in  structure  and  routine  and  stability.

And  like,  those  things  are  much  easier  when  I'm  home.  But  I  have  have  strategies  rather  for  like,  you  know,  to  kind  of  find  that  stability  like  anywhere  I  am,

right?  And  it  could  be  little  it  could  be  little  things  like,  I  don't  know,  like  making  sure  I  can  get  some  like  deeper  quality  sleep  or  like,  you  know,  like  a  face  mask  or  Maybe  some  chamomile  before  bed  or  you  know  wake  up  You  know  splash  some  cold  water  in  my  face  and  take  a  cold  shower  or  go  outside  and  look  at  you  know  Look  at  the  sun  or  expose  myself  in  the  sun,

right?  It  could  be  things  like  that  or  you  know,  it  could  just  be  general  things  like  taking  some  deep  breaths  and  like  you  know  Reminding  myself  like  nothing  is  perfect.  I'm  always  gonna  have  to  battle  through  something,  you  know  Just  focus  on  the  positive  and  negative  does  not  need  to  weigh  me  down  for,

you  know,  days  or  hours  or,  you  know,  weeks  on  end.  It  can  be  something  that  exists  in  my  life,  but  doesn't  have  to  completely  hold  me  down,  you  know.  And  I've  let  go  of  those  things  and  I've  accepted  that  they  exist,

but  I've  also,  you  know,  decided  to  hold  on  to  the  positive.  And  I  have,  and  I  happen  to  have  a  lot  more  positive  in  my  life.  I  don't  know  if  that's  like...  like  a  consequence  of  just  cutting  out  the  negative  or  just  being  lucky  or  I  don't  know  what  it  is,

but  maybe  I'm  manifesting  a  more  positive  than  negative.  I  don't  know  what  it  is,  but  I  generally  find  that  like  I  can  be  a  lot  happier  because  I'm  not  just,

you  know,  just  bemoaning  all  the  things  that  are  hard  about  life  or,  you  know,  just  like  a  thinking  about  all  the  mistakes  I've  made  or  whatever,

you  know,  I'm  just  just  choosing  to  accept  what  was  and  then,  you  know,  move  on.  And  I  think  that's  that's  helped  a  lot,  you  know.  Yeah,  the  way  you're  speaking  about  negative  thoughts  and  allowing  them  to  arrive  and  then  pass  and  not  instead  of  ruminating  you,

you  know,  the  two  schools  that  I  found  most  effective  for  taking  my  thoughts  captive  for  acknowledging  those  negative  thoughts  and  then  just  being  able  to  let  them  come  and  go  is  two  things  I've  been  journaling  and  meditating.

And  I've  done  both  of  those  fairly  obsessively  for  the  past  for  the  past  past  like  three  three  three  or  so  years  of  my  life  and  on  and  off  some  of  it  sometimes  I  go  into  slumps  or  breaks  with  with  one  or  both  of  them  but  what  do  either  I've  either  of  those  been  major  like  inter  interceptors  for  your  for  like  like  those  negative  thoughts  and  your  ability  just  to  not  let  them  just  ruin  your  whole  day  or  week  or

month  amazingly  no  I  i  don't  do  either  of  those  things  and  that's  that  is  something  that  i  would  like  to  optimize  like  later  in  my  life  or  i  could  even  do  it  now  i  just  um  there  are  you're  doing  something  hold  me  back  yeah  yeah  but  it  is  just  like  i've  always  i've  always  been  like  i've  always  had  like  a  uh  to  my  detriment  i've  always  had  like  a  really  good  memory  and  um  like  uh  it  made  like  certain  aspects  of

life  easier,  let's  say  school  or  tests,  like  that  made  things  a  little  bit  easier,  right?  I  don't  know,  simple  things  like,  you  know,  remembering  someone's  name  or  like,  you  know,  it's  easier  to  make  friends  if  you  can  do  that,

right?  - Yeah.  - But  it's  also  like,  it's  helped  me  back  a  lot.  Like  I  remember  a  lot  of  things  I  don't  want  to  remember.  And,  you  know,  like  I  said,  like  a  lot  of  those  negative  thoughts  like  would  sit  with  me  for  a  long  time.

because  I  just  couldn't  I  couldn't  get  them  out  of  my  head,  you  know  but  Now  it's  gotten  to  the  point  where  I'm  like,  I'm  happy  that  I  did  hand  because  then  I  can  like  I  can  really  Like  like  you  said  like  kind  of  ruminate  on  those  thoughts  and  then  let  them  pass  and  like  And  then  like  light  in  these  these  better  thoughts  and  I  really  remember  those  You  know,

I  really  remember  those  feelings  and  I  choose  to  kind  of  like  let  those  sit  with  me  a  lot  lot  a  lot  better  and  I  do  think  that  I  will  start  journaling  and  I  will  start  meditating  to  kind  of  like  help  facilitate  that  but  as  of  right  now  you  know  I'm  still  in  such  a  work  in  progress  like  I  said  you  know  it's  not  that  I  it's  not  that  I  don't  think  those  things  will  help  it's  just  that  I  have  so  many  so  many

things  that  I  I  could  be  doing  better  and  I  totally  acknowledge  that,  but  I  can't  just  magically  perfect  myself  overnight.  So  yeah,

so  I  think  really  it's  all  just  up  here  and  that's  part  of,  you  can  kind  of  maybe  understand  why  I  was  going  a  little  bit  crazy  and  I  had  such  a  hard  time  for  such  a  long  period  because  this,

my  thoughts,  move  really  fast  and  my  head  is  constantly  working.  Maybe  I  have  some  ADHD  or  something,  I  don't  know,  but  yeah,

I've  at  least  got  to  this  point  now  where  I  do  feel  much  more  calm  and  much  more  present  and  mindful.  And  those  things,

like,  I  know  those  are  just  like  random  buzzwords.  buzzwords  maybe,  but  like  I  really  feel  them,  you  know,  and,  and  that's  just,  it's  just  really  helped  my  life.  But  will  I,

will  I  go  back  to  therapy  someday?  Will  I  start  journaling?  Will  I  start  meditating?  All  those  things.  Yeah,  I  believe  I  will.  But  that's  just  like  I  said,  that's  part  of  the  long -term  process  of  me  optimizing  myself.

And  it's  just,  you  know,  I'm,  I'm  still  getting  there.  And  I  feel  like  I'm  made  to.  much,  so  much  progress,  but  still  working.  Yeah.  Well,  I  just  want  to  say  to  that,

like  a  lot  of  these  tools  and  practices  get  kind  of  fetishized  into  something  you  kind  of  brag  about,  even  me  bringing  it  up  on  this  conversation  right  now.  Like,  but  the  reason  I  brought  it  up  is  because  it  seems  like  clearly  you  did  something  and  you  had  an  inflection  point,

you're  like,  what,  like  there  was  a,  there  was  a,  trajectory  that  just  kind  of  like,  there's  a  hard  angle  that  you  cut.  And  so  I  wanted  to  know,  but,  you  know,

the,  I  think  the  Latin  root  of  meditation  or  meditation,  some  meditation,  it  basically  means  to  become  familiar  with.  And  so  both  of  these  things,  meditating,

journaling,  whatever  other  list  of  practices  you  want  to  think  of,  like  the  meta  in  a  meta  sense,  they're  all  kind  of  doing  the  same  thing  where  you're  becoming  familiar  with  yourself,

your  thoughts.  And  then  you  are  like  intentionally  pursuing  certain  thoughts  and  letting  other  thoughts  pass.  And  so,  and  so  it's  you  seem  like  someone  who's  maybe  more  of  a  natural  than  me,

where  you've  just  been  able  to  like  naturally  take  your  thoughts.  thoughts.  Well,  not  captive,  but  like  I  said,  be  aware  of  your  thoughts  in  just  daily  life  without  having  to  close  your  eyes  and  sit  still  or  without  having  to,

you  know,  pound  on  a  keyboard  or,  or  scribble  with  a  pencil.  So  that's  a  great,  that's  a  great  thing  that  you,  that  you're  able  to  do  that.  So  keep,  you  know,  there's  tools  available,

but  I  definitely  would  encourage  you  just  keep  doing  whatever  you're  doing.  Yeah,  thank  you.  No,  I,  yeah,  thank  you.  you  I  have  worked  very  hard  on  it,  but  I  will  I  am  I'm  like  I  said  still  pursuing  Whatever  I  think  could  you  know  be  healthy  that  you  know  is  is  like  healthy  and  like  I  don't  want  to  I  don't  know  how  to  say  like  like  natural  like  it's  not  like  an  external  where  like  a  like  a  Fuck  I  don't  know.

What  do  you  say?  Like  like  like  it's  the  stem  cell  equivalent  of  you  know  like  Um,  you  know,  whatever  an  injection  practice.  Yeah  Exactly.  Right.  Like  I,  I,  I  am  looking  for  those  things,

you  know,  and  there's,  there's  so  many  things  that  I  was  like,  I  like,  I  don't  want  to,  I  don't  like,  I,  it  feels  weird.  It  makes  me  sound  like  I  feel  like  I'm  sounding  like  a  hippie  when  I'm  like,

you  know,  oh,  I  just,  I  just  want  to  do  everything  like  the  natural  way  and  stuff,  but  it  is  like,  I  would  like  to  at  least  because  that  seems  like  the  most  sustainable,  like  I  could,  you  know,

I  could  have  maybe  like  like  uh  like  it's  like  I  don't  want  the  ozempic  equivalent  of  um  you  know  um  uh  mental  weight  loss  or  or  mental  yeah  yeah  yeah  the  mental  side  of  things  like  I  you  know  what  I  mean  um  although  there  is  probably  a  quick  fix  like  I  probably  could  have  gone  on  so  many  depressants  or  um  like  maybe  could  have  I  don't  know  shock  therapy  or  something  yeah  well  maybe  I  could  have  I  don't  know  but

I  mean  this.  I  like  this  path  there  Yeah,  I  mean  one  thing  I'll  admit  and  this  is  a  I  think  it's  the  first  time  I've  I've  all  of  Mentioned  this  online  by  talk.  I  plan  talking  about  it  more  in  the  future  I  I  was  on  anti -depressants  at  one  point  in  my  life  Because  I  felt  like  I  was  in  such  a  hole  that  I  couldn't  get  out  of  that.

I  that  I  decided  like  I  Decided  like  I'm  not  getting  out  of  this  alive  no  matter  what  Like  we're  all,  we  all  are  going  to  meet  our  day.

And  I'm  not  going  to  like  pitch  a  perfect  game.  And  so,  because  I  always  regarded  as  like  a  defeat,  like,  oh,  I'm  like  admitting  that  I  need  a  crutch  or  I'm  admitting  that  like,  I'm  not,

you  know,  I  don't  have  all  the  answers.  And  so  I  did.  And  I  just  decided  like,  I'm  going  to  make  a  mess  of  this  thing.  And  I'm  going  to,  I'm  going  to  try  it.  And,  and  so  I'm  not  going  to  go  into  too  much  detail  on  like  what,

what  I  took.  and  all  that,  because  I  can  talk  about  that  later  more  carefully.  But  it  did  get  me  out  of  a  pit,  and  it  did.  And  now  I've  been  off  for  a  few  years  now.

I  tapered  off,  because  I  just  felt  like,  oh,  I  was  able  to  get  to  a  certain  point  where  I  just  wanted  to  try  on  my  own.  Even  though  the  one  I  took  had  zero  negative  side  effects,

and  I  was  pretty  much  like--  Yeah,  it  was  like--  very  effective,  but  yeah,  it's  It  is  true  like  Natural  having  a  bias  for  natural  is  better  And  that's  and  that's  why  I  ran  the  experiment  of  going  off  and  it's  been  successful  And  I'm  like  and  life  is  just  so  much  better  now  Then  it  was  way  before  it's  better  than  it  was  when  I  was  on  and  now  it's  yeah,

so  Yeah,  um  good  man  and  dude  and  dude  respect  first  off  like  you  know  because  like  a  lot  of  people  wouldn't  even  come  to  that  decision  and  like  uh  i'm  not  sure  if  my  family's  company  will  be  talking  about  this  but  they're  all  like  most  of  them  are  on  any  depressants  and  they're  perfectly  happy  and  you  know  and  it  works  wonders  for  them  and  i'm  so  happy  to  see  them  happy  and  whatever  means  they  came  to  that  i

wouldn't  i  wouldn't  really  you  know  karen  it's  such  a  it's  such  a  fun  the  thing,  right?  That  I  wouldn't,  I  don't  want  to  seem  like  I'm  like  trying  to  like  be  judgy  or  anything,  you  know,  because  I'm  certain,

certainly  not.  So  yeah,  I  just,  I  hope  to  get  that  point  across  in  a  like  a  clear,  but  not  like  pushy  way,  you  know.  No,  yeah,  you  definitely,  no,

you  definitely,  I  think,  I  think  it's  pretty  clear.  Um,  wait,  yeah,  no,  like  there's  a  lot  of  of  grace  in  everything  you  said.  And  I'm  just  part  of  the  reason,

I  want  to  gain  wisdom  from,  you  know,  by  talking  to  people  like  you.  And  I  also,  in  order  to  ask  you  to  open  up  and  provide  wisdom,

provide  your  life  experience,  I  want  to  do  the  same  a  little  bit,  both  for  you  and  as  well  as  for  people.  listening.  Because  I'm  doing  some  digging  and  some  probing,

and  you  don't  have  to  share  everything,  and  you're  not  going  to  share  everything,  but  you  get  what  I'm  saying.  Yeah,  open  book.  And  I  just  want  to  make  sure  anyone  listening,

it  doesn't  feel  judged  or  that  I'm  trying  to  sway  them  a  certain  way,  because  I'm  really  not.  I  just  I  like  I  want  everyone  to  be  happy  like  I  just  I  really  want  everyone  to  be  careful  and  not  feel  how  I  felt  you  know  and  and  whatever  means  you  can  get  to  that  as  long  as  it's  not  hurting  other  people  which  like  any  dressing  certainly  or  not  I  you  know  I'm  totally  I'm  totally  supportive  of  that  so  anyways  was  was

there  was  there  an  like  an  an  age  window  that  was  like  your  your  lowest  darkest  period  of  life  So  you  remember?

Yeah,  uh,  I  would  say  about  18  to  Mmm,  and  maybe  like  24  or  25  even  And  you're  how  old  that  26  Okay  Yeah  25  might  be  a  stretch.

But  yeah,  but  yeah,  actually,  yeah,  majority  of  my  jiu -jitsu  career,  that's  a  good  way.  I  didn't  even  think  about  that.  But  yeah,  wow,  interesting.  Was  that,  was  that  sort  of  what  you  say  jiu -jitsu  was  sort  of  the  buoy  keeping  you  afloat  to  get  through  that?

Yeah,  easy.  Yeah.  Easy.  100%.  I  can't  imagine  the  people  that  I  would  have  missed  out  on,  like,  you  know,  how  many  people  I  would  have  missed  out  on.  out  on  Meeting  and  like  helping  me  How  did  I  had  you  to  and  outside  of  the  you  know,

like  the  structure  and  like  the  like  where  we're  talking  about  earlier  like  all  the  The  you  know  benefits  of  just  you  just  strictly  jujitsu,  you  know  Yeah,  but  I  mean,  I  guess  it  was  like  Alongside  this  time,

but  it  was  just  it  was  just  kind  of  like  a  culmination  of  so  many  of  a  period  of  like  such  a  drastic  change  And  like  both  my  grandpa's  died  when  I  was  18  I  had  several  very  like  heartbreaking  breakups  you  were  you  were  there  for  a  lot  of  that  I  talked  about  a  lot  of  them  with  you  and  I'm  sure  you  you  know  could  sense  that  I  was  bothered  by  that  and  you  know  I  went  I  went  to  college  I  you  know  was  competing

traveling  competing  this  is  all  else  you  were  there  for  a  lot  of  this  actually  I  think  think  about  it.  So  like,  all  that  was  just  so  much  change  in  such  a  short  period  of  time  for  young,  I  was  super  mature  as  is.

Like,  that  was  a  lot  for  some,  for  an  18 -year -old,  19 -year -old,  20 -year -old  to  go  through,  you  know?  So  I  think  all  that  combined  was  just  like  a  recipe  for,

you  know,  like,  instrumental  instability,  you  know?  And  even  up  until  last  year,  like,  I  was,  I  was,  I  was  traveling  across  the  world,  like  I  lived  in,  I  lived  in  Europe,

you  know,  then  I  moved  back  to  the  US,  like  it  was  like  a  lot,  a  lot  of  stuff,  right?  So  like,  I  was  very  unstable,  physically  and  mentally,  but  I  don't  know,

something  just  like  something  clicked,  like  I  decided  that  I  was  worth  saving,  you  know,  like  I  couldn't  just  keep,  couldn't  myself,  you  know?  Was  there  any  particular  like  book  you  read  or  person  you'd  listen  to,

YouTube,  or  like,  whatever,  like  anyone  who's  just  like  a  major,  major,  just,  you  know,  psychological  type  thinker,  professor,  anyone  like  that  that  made  a  big  influence?

Dude,  you  know,  it's  crazy,  it's  like,  yes,  and  they  had  existed  in  my  life  for  so  long,  but  I  just  didn't  hear  them,  you  know?  Like,  it  could  be,  like,  you  know  popular  sources  like  like  Huberman  or  like  Lex  Friedman  or  Jordan  Peterson  or  you  know  I'm  not  like  crazy  into  those  guys  right  but  they  exist  and  I  heard  them  for  a  long  time  right  but  it  was  like  it  was  guys  in  my  just  people  my  own  life  it  was  like

guys  like  you  know  who  who  were  very  like  wise  and  would  give  me  a  lot  of  wisdom  and  and  and  a  lot  of  like  practical  advice  and  things.  Like  Chris  Wojcik  is  a  great  source  for  me.

John  Colms  was  a  phenomenal  source  for  me.  I  don't  think  you  know  him,  but  Gino  Chutera,  he's  a  blackbub,  he's  an  amazing  person,  and  he  was  a  great  source  for  me.  Even  my  ex -boyfriend's  younger  brother  was  a  phenomenal  resource  for  those  things,

and  I  just  didn't  utilize  them.  You  know,  like,  I  heard  them.  them  they  were  in  my  life,  but  I  didn't  like  Actively  listen  to  them.  Not  that  they  were  shouting  advice.  I  mean  like  they  weren't  like  telling  me  you  need  to  change  You  know,

but  they  were  showing  me  like  practically  how  I  could  you  know  improve  and  in  you  as  well  Man  like  you  know  like  a  lot  of  the  things  you  talk  about  in  your  newsletter  and  and  your  Instagram  and  stuff  like  that's  all  Very  practical  things  that  I  saw  I  heard  I'd  listened  to  but  I  didn't  internalize  you  know  and  one  I  did  that  made  just  such  a  massive  difference  in  my  life  and  it  could  be  things  like  it  could  be

like  general  health  things  like  you  know  diet -based  like  usually  like  you  know  recovery  base  training  whatever  professional  advice  personal  advice  you  know  and  I  just  you  know  didn't  utilize  it  I  just  I  wasn't  ready  to  hear  it,

you  know,  but  now,  but  now  that  I  am  like,  did  all  just  keep  flooding  in,  you  know,  and  yeah,  I  mean,  learning  happens  in  such  a  nonlinear  way.  And  so  like  you're  kind  of  saying  you  didn't  accept  certain  things  that  you  heard  until  late,

like,  like  you're,  you're  kind  of  saying  you're  like  a  lot,  you're  a  hard  study.  But  I  think,  I  think  there's  a  lot  of  unconscious  learning  that's  happening.  and  there's  a  lot  that's  being  transferred  kind  of  Biosmosis  and  it's  like  a  slow  cook  and  this  kind  of  segues  me  a  little  bit  to  back  to  jiu -jitsu  because  one  of  the  another  really  remarkable  thing  about  you  as  I  see  is  How  quickly  your  game  adapts  and  how

quickly  you  learn?  Like  my  guess  has  my  I've  thought  this  about  you  for  a  long  time  is  that  you  do  a  lot  of  films  study  Because  anytime  I  see  a  new  technique  popping  up  on  on  the  in  the  jiu -jitsu  realm  whether  it's  false  reap  or  whether  it's  buggy  Choke  whether  it's  You  know  when  leg  locks  first  thing  in  a  thing.

Yeah,  yeah  joy  bars  like  you  are  hopping  on  that  so  quick  I  see  that  show  up  in  your  competitions  really  quick.  And  so  you're  not  like  You  know,  you're  you're  a  tenth  planet  black  belt  like  I  am  But  you've,

you  know  clearly  your  curriculum  and  your  source  for  jiu -jitsu  knowledge  isn't  just  from,  you  know,  the  gym  you're  training  out  or  just  from  10th  planet  techniques,  like  you  really  learn  quickly.

And  so  that  also  connects  me  a  little  bit  to  like  how  you  said  you  have  a  good,  you  had  a  good  memory,  which  can  be  a  good  and  a  bad  thing.  And  this  case,  it  seems  to  be  a  good  thing.  Tell  me  a  little  bit  about  your,  your  learn,  your  jiu -jitsu  learning  method  and  how  you've  evolved  your  game.

over  time?  Yeah,  it's  always  been,  I  would  say  it's  always  been  math  time.  My  practical  application  has  always  been  maybe  my  main  tool.

What  is  it  like  when  having  success  with  or  not  having  success  with  in  the  gym,  right?  But  I  couldn't  just--  if  we  limit  ourselves  to--  I  reckon  this  is  very  early  on.  If  I  limit  myself  to  just  the  thing  that  was--  being  taught  that  day,

my  learning  was  going  to  be  a  lot  slower,  right?  So  very  early  on  I  was  film  studying.  Like  I  was,  well,  uh,  Budo  videos,  right?  Uh,  uh,  I  was  watching,

you  know,  videos  on  Budo  videos.  I  was  buying  like  EBI's  and  men  Morris  and,  uh,  random  events.  I  can't  even  remember  and  random  instructionals  that  I  can't  even  remember.

Uh,  and  I  was  watching  those.  And  there  was.  guys  like,  you  know,  it  was  guys  that  are  on  the  cutting  edge  at  the  time,  like  Gary  Tonan,  Eddie  Cummings,  even  this  is  back  when  Bill  Cooper,

Jeff  Glover,  who  like  I'm  not  comfortable  shouting  out  as  like  a,  I  don't  mind,  don't  mistake  it,  but  like  guys  like  that,  the  word  like  coming  up  to  where,  had  like  very  innovative,

GEO  was  a  big  one,  right?  You  know,  boogie.  Boogie  obviously  was  competing  at  such  a  high  level  and  like  I  could  view  their  their  competition,  you  know,  stuff,

right?  And  so  like,  like,  I  was  following  them  very  early  on,  I  was  just  replicating  everything  that  they  do.  One,  you  know,  if  one  thing  worked  better  than  another,  I  would  gravitate  towards  the  thing  that  did,

right?  And  I  still  kind  of  apply  that  same  methodology,  I'd  say,  to  my...  to  my  like  to  the  learning  curve  that  I'm  on  right  like  I  will  still  do  a  lot  of  film  study  and  it's  mostly  I  won't  say  mostly  it's  like  50 /50  like  instructionals  or  you  know  actual  matches  right  but  I  will  take  like  okay  I  saw  this  thing  in  a  match  that  applies  really  well  to  my  game  or  that's  something  I  want  to  improve  on  then  I'll

look  up  an  instructional  right  that  is  like  similar  to  that  and  I  mean  mean,  you  know,  that  just  adds  up  to  be  a  lot  of,  like  I  watched  so  much  you  just  do  throughout  the  week  and  doesn't  really  feel  like  it's  like  studying,

although  I  guess  you  could  call  it  that,  but  it  just  is  something  I'm  interested  in.  And  that  is  kind  of  like  how  it's  evolved.  And  then,  you  know,  the  like  practical  methods  have  kind  of  varied  over  the  years.

I  used  to  just,  like  I  used  to  do  what  do  you  call  it,  what  do  you  call  it,  what  do  you  call  it?  approach,  right?  I  would  just,  I  would  just  try  it  live.  But  then  I  started  to,

I  think  I  felt  a  lot  better  when  I  was  like  just  actually  drilling  it.  Slow,  slow,  slow,  medium,  medium,  medium  fast  process,  right?  Then  I  could  do  it  live.  And  that's,

that  seemed  to  work  a  lot  better  for  me.  But  even  then  there's  some  techniques  that  work  better  than  others,  you  know?  And  yeah,  I  remember  you  were  on  top  of  the  meta  as  well.  When  you  were  competing.  like  you  and  Eric  Ramey,

I  think  had  a  big  influence  on  you,  I  think,  right?  - Yeah,  that's  right.  - You  guys  were  really  on  top  of  things.  And  I  remember  you  just,  yeah,  you  just  really  had  like  so  much  success,

like  applying  the  things  that  worked  super,  super  well,  like  the  highest  level,  like  out  of  like  a  meta  level,  right?  But  it  also  worked  very  well  for  you,  you  know?  Yeah,

well,  that's  what  struck  me  because  air  grainy  is  like  unlike  anyone.  I've  ever  met  on  the  jiu -jitsu  mats  He's  like  it  to  the  you  know  to  the  point  of  like  autism  not  literally  he's  he's  got  he's  got  plenty  of  social  skills  But  like  his  the  way  he's  able  to  just  understand  jiu -jitsu  and  like  every  single  detail  is  so  just  systematic  and  And  just  like  like  a  toe  point  like  I  can't  I  can't  match  that  like  at  all

intellectually,  uh,  so  he  just  figured  out  things  so  far  ahead,  but  I  noticed  you  doing  all  the  things  that  he  was  telling  me  to  do.  Like  I  was  kind  of  just  doing  what  he  told  me.

I  didn't  figure  much  out  on  my  own,  but  you  like  already  had  these  things  figured  out.  So  either  you  guys  are  studying  a  lot  of  the  same  instruction  holds,  uh,  but  yeah,  I  don't  know.  Like,  did  you  actually  like  coming  up?

Cause,  you  know,  you're  young.  coming  up  and  probably  didn't  have  a  lot  of  money  Did  you  actually  invest  a  lot  of  money  in  instructionals  or  or  were  you  mostly  watching  competitions?  I  mostly  watch  competitions.  Yeah,  instructionals  didn't  exist  Like  when  I  was  coming  up  like  and  I'm  sure  I'm  sure  you  kind  of  you  said  you  did  or  did  not  watch  a  lot  of  instruction  Didn't  right  I  did  not  know  not  really  I  yeah,

yeah,  correct  Yeah,  because  because  there  wasn't  really  a  whole  lot  like  that  isn't  maybe  that's  something  that  a  white  person  bow  or  blue  bow  or  whoever  someone's  starting  out  now  kind  of  like  Is  like  it's  someone  were  an  expectation  of  their  jiu -jitsu  journey  But  that  wasn't  an  expectation  of  ours  like  no  one  told  us  to  watch  it  was  all  and  the  opposite  was  true.

It  was  like  Gracie  online  was  bullshit,  right?  He  didn't  online  was  was  it  was  bullshit?  Do  you  remember  this  a  Gracie  University?  Like  it  was  totally  was  like  said  like  you  can't  learn  or  not  like  you  have  to  to  just  get  math  time  at  the  gym.

So  that  was  the  attitude.  But  like  I  kind  of  started  to  see  past  that  when  I  started  to  watch  like  matches  and  then  technique  videos  were  more  common.

So  I  didn't  really  have  to  invest  a  whole  lot  of  money  because  the  content...  that  was  coming  out  was  mostly  free  Like  YouTube  stuff.  Yeah,  and  and  even  if  I  did  have  to  it  was  like  the  stuff  that  was  out  was  really  cheap  Like  even  the  Buddha  video  stuff  was  cheap.

I  think  there  was  like  an  eddy  Cummings  instructional  was  super  cheap  like  Or  maybe  that  one  was  even  free.  I  think  I  got  it  in  my  hands  on  somehow  and  like  flow  It  was  like  post  on  flow  or  something  so  so  it  wasn't  like  it  wasn't  that  expensive.

But  it  was  like  an  investment  that  I  had  made,  I  guess  like  a  time  investment,  right?  That  I  had  decided  to  make.  And  like,  now,

yeah,  it  is  a  much  bigger,  like  monetary,  you  know,  investment  stuff,  which  is  fine.  I'm  comfortable  doing  that.  I'm  happy  to  support,  I'm  happy  to  support  it.  Any  grappler  puts  on  instructional  because  I'm  happy  to  support  it.

grateful  for  the  people  that  have  also  done  that  for  me  So  that's  like  not  an  issue  of  my  part,  but  it  is  a  bigger  investment.  But  yeah,  but  basically  I  was  like  Trying  to  follow  whatever  the  matter  was  in  there.

I  get  I'm  sure  you  can  speak  you  can  speak  to  this  as  well  But  like  when  we  were  coming  up,  it  was  like  the  outside.  He'll  look  meta  was  becoming  very  very  popular  Back  back  control  back  escapes  were  very  very  important  to  know  Um,

and  then  it  started  to  shift.  Like  I'm  trying  to  think  of  what  came  after  that.  Like  wrestle  ups  were  a  thing.  Um,  like,  uh,  like,  yeah,

you  were,  you  were,  you  were  on  top  of  that  really  early.  I  remember,  um,  50  50  was  also  another  one.  Um,  and  then,  you  know,  like,  uh,  passing,  like,  uh,

like  passing  butterflies  was  becoming  like  a.  thing  you  needed  to  know,  I  remember.  So  it  was  a  butterfly,  it  must  be  a  lot  more  popular.  So  it  was  like  stuff  like  that.  And  I  just,  you  had  to  be  on  top  of  it.

And  now  it's  like  crazy  how  much  it  changes  and  the  direction  it  changes.  Like  you  said,  buggy  chokes,  Troy  bars,  like--  - Yeah,

back  takes  versus  leg  locks,  like  all  the  time.  - Yes,  yes,  all  that  stuff.  It's  like,  it's  gone  so  fast.  crazy,  but  it's  like  super  important  to  be  on  top  of,  it's  just,  I  wouldn't  say  it's  like,  it's  actually  probably  easier  to  stay  on  top  of  things  now  because  of  how,

because  of  how  popular  the  internet  is,  right,  social  media,  et  cetera.  But  yeah,  it's  a  tough,

it's  still  kind  of  a  job  to  stay  on  top  of  that,  but  like,  it's  something  I  genuinely  enjoy  doing.  doing  anyway  so  it's  not  like  does  it  feel  like  a  whole  lot  of  work  but  uh  but  I  can  see  why  you  can  see  how  the  how  the  average  person  would  not  think  that's  very  enjoyable  like  would  not  want  to  do  it  that  way  they'd  want  to  show  up  to  school  to  school  up  to  their  show  up  to  their  school  train  go  home  that's

it  right  I  totally  get  that  too  you  know  so  yeah  yeah  I  just  happen  to  enjoy  it  yeah  I  want  to  pull  I  have  a  follow  up  question  on  that.  Although  I  do  want  to  say  I  just  a  slight,

uh,  correction  on  myself.  I,  so  I,  I  did  watch  a  lot  of  instructionals,  but  not  till  I  was  like  a  brown  belt  and  a  black  belt  and  it  was  almost  like  to  make  me  a  better,

uh,  teacher.  Uh,  I  did  like,  I  was  using  it  toward  the  end  of  my  competition  career,  but,  um,  But  yes,  sometimes  I  wonder  because  the  amount  of  information  in  a  lot  of  these  whether  it's  whether  it's  Master  any  bravo  or  it's  John  Daner  or  it's  Gordon  Ryan  or  it's  Mikey  Musimichi  Like  they're  so  dense  with  information  and  as  a  black  belt  I  it  feels  like  it  feels  perfect  for  me  But  it's  like  almost  like  PhD  or

masters  level  and  I  wonder  sometimes  like  how  a  white  or  a  blue  belt  can  really  actually  actually  consume  all  this,  all  this  information.  But,

but  yeah,  all  that  to  say,  I  do,  I  do  have  a  bias  toward  watching  live  competition,  because  that's  like  the  real  lab,  that's  like,  really  where  incentives  are  all  lined  up  to  see  if  something's  going  to  work  or  not  work.

So  you  mentioned  if  the  equalize  equalize.  versus,  we  can  just  call  it,  there's  probably  some  official  language  for  this,

but  I  would  say  the  reps  approach,  repetition  approach  to  training.  I  personally  see  value  in  both.  I  see  at  the  end  game  is  the  ecological  because  that  is  where  really  implementation,

integration,  variability  comes  in.  in.  But  in  terms  of  the  path,  and  that  is  like  the  most  fun  part  generally.  Some  people  really  like  to  wax  on,  wax  off.  Like  they  find  that  like  meditative.

But  for  me,  like  that  was  the  part  of  martial  arts.  I  like,  liked  the  least  growing  up,  which  is  why  like  I  quit  by  the  age  of  like  seven.  How  cute  the  ones  I  protect  one  though.  The  best  part  about  jiu -jitsu  is  that  we  get  to  like  go  a  hundred  percent  live  and  everyone  gets  to  walk  home.

without  a  concussion  or  a  broken  bone  because  you  know,  because  that  tapping  threshold  is  there.  So  but  yeah,  you've,  you've  gone,

you  said  you  went  from  like  taking  more  of  an  ecological  approach  just  like  live  applying  in  rules  to  emphasizing  more  reps  now.  Is  that  because  you  need  to  allow  your  body  to  recover  better  and  not  do  so  much  live  or  it's  because  you've  literally  see  the  better  results  from  sharpening  more  yeah  I  don't  really  know  it's  it's  not  really  the  body  thing  like  I  feel  like  I'm  in  better  shape  my  body  can  take  a  lot  more

now  than  it  can  then  it  could  back  when  because  I  take  care  much  better  care  of  my  body  body  now  like  outside  of  just  training  you  know  so  I  wouldn't  say  it's  that  as  much  I  would  say  it's  more  so  just  like  muscle  memory  that's  the  biggest  one  and  do  to  like  kind  of  annoying  when  I'm  trying  to  drill  a  move  and  then  a  guy  does  something  to  stop  me  from  doing  it  so  like  uh  you  know  what  I  mean  like  if  you're

trying  you're  trying  to  if  let's  say  you're  drilling  you're  just  drilling  right  and  then  you  have  a  partner  who's  like  actively  resisting  you  that's  super  annoying  and  you  can't  do  the  move  right  because  we're  going  like  this  like  the  you  know  the  strength  level  of  a  toddler  where  there  is  like  a  like  a  you  know  tensile  man  right  um  so  like  I  think  just  taking  that  out  of  the  equation,

like  just  thrilling  it,  like  you  said,  just  like  wax  on,  wax  off,  right?  And  then  being  able  to  apply  it  at  a,  like  an  in  a  live  setting  is  like,

just  works  for  me,  right?  Something  that  like  Penn  State  has  been  doing  that  I  was  kind  of  became  keen  to  was  like  drill  matches  where,  and  I  see  a  few  high  school  rooms  as  we're  doing  this.

now  that  I've  been  in.  They're  basically,  you  know,  you're  hitting  like  your  best  takedown  or  your  takedown  you're  working  on,  whatever,  but  your  opponent  is  giving  you  like  20 %  resistance,

30 %  resistance,  whatever.  But  it  kind  of  keeps  going,  and  you  get  like,  you  get  like  an  active  feel  for  what  is  happening  and  what  could  happen,  right,  when  you're  drilling  that  that  certain  move,

so  that  is  something  I  could  apply  to  jiu -jitsu  You  can  call  it  flow  rolling,  but  I'd  like  to  call  it  more  like  drill  matching  drill  matches  You  know  and  that  might  be  close  to  the  ecological  system  or  whatever  I  don't  really  know  I  get  a  lot  of  questions  about  it  at  seminars  and  it's  like  it's  starting  Because  like  I  am  not  like  I  just  am  not  an  expert  on  it,

and  I  think  it's  like  basically  made  up  And  it's  kind  of  everything  we've  already  been  doing  anyways  So  like  it  is  starting  to  become  a  little  much  but  like  I  think  that  Is  like  maybe  kind  of  similar  to  what  they're  doing  and  I  but  I  think  it's  I  think  maybe  at  that  point  We're  kind  of  over -complicating.

I  think  it's  a  little  simpler  than  that  Okay.  Yeah,  that's  really  interesting  that  you're  hearing  you're  getting  a  lot  of  questions  at  seminars  about  that  I'm  getting  rants,  bro.  It's  not  really  like  someone  talking  at  me  for  15  minutes,

you  know  uh,  it's  happening.  Yeah,  it's  happening  too  much.  Interesting.  Okay.  Yeah.  That's,  yeah,  I  guess  there's  this,  I  mean,  it's  just  normal  way  to  get  clicks  online  and  where  people  try  to  be  speak  boldly  and  controversially  and  like  very  black  and  white  and  say  like  rep  ever  rep,

you  know,  to  ever  rep  anything  is  like  a  waste  of  time,  which  is,  which  yeah,  it's  definitely  questionable  Like  that  rep  like  really  repetition  has  nothing  to  do  with  memory  like  that's  that's  a  tough  claim  to  back  up  fully  So  Yeah,

it's  not  as  satisfying  an  answer  to  say  both  Yeah,  no,  it's  not  yeah,  yeah,  especially  for  a  beginner  who  wants  this  secret  because  you  know  marks  March  Commenting  in  the  martial  arts  culture  is  we  want  the  secret.

We  want  the  key  Yeah,  yeah,  that's  true  But  like  as  something  I've  realized  is  like  shortcuts  don't  do  not  exist  in  this  sport  Like  there's  no  free  rides  like  you  you  we  see  it  all  the  time  There's  a  white  or  blue  belt  who  is  so  athletic  They  get  so  good  so  fast  But  and  they  get  maybe  get  promoted  very  fast  or  they  have  very  good  competition  results  very  fast  Once  they  get  to  block  purple  belt  Let's  even  say  it

it  it  drops  fast  like  like  they  have  they  have  to  develop  different  like  they  have  to  actually  Work  on  their  weaknesses,  right?  Whereas  they  didn't  have  to  when  they  were  white  or  blue  ball,

you  know  It  could  be  said  about  guys  who  are  taking  steroids  And  they  see  like  there's  massive  gains,  maybe  even  competitive  leave  Um,  your  body  starts  to  break  the  ice  I  don't  know  a  whole  lot  about  steroids,

but  I  just  see  it  like  your  body  starts  to  really,  really  dip  and  like  the  more  your  body  dips  once  you  go  off  or  even  when  I  just  think  I  just  think  your  body  fades  faster.

I  don't,  I  don't,  that's  what  I,  that's  what  I've  noticed.  I  mean,  like,  maybe  you  guys,  maybe  I'm  doing,  I  will  wait  and  see,  right?

Actually,  yeah.  yeah,  you're  right.  - You  know  what  I  mean?  And  like  I  said,  this  is  something  my  dad  has  told  me  since  I  was  zero  years  old,

if  it  sounds  too  good  to  be  true,  it  is.  Like,  oh  man,  but  this  guy's  competing  into  his  40s.  Like,  how  long  is  he  gonna  lip?  Like,  at  a  certain  point,

maybe  your  competitive  career  is  longer,  maybe  it  is,  maybe  there  is  no  competitive  career.  you  know,  downswing,  but  like  at  a  certain  point,  dude,  I'm  pretty  sure  you're  going  to  die.  Like  how  painful  early  death,

right?  I  just,  I  just  think  that,  right?  So  that's,  that's,  sorry  to  take  it  to  that.  No,  I  mean,  you're  right.  It  sounds  like  a  poor  long -term  plan.  Sure,

sure.  And  I  think  that  could  be  said  about,  like  I  said,  anything  about  these  shortcuts  that  we  might  take,  right?  like  trying  to  find  trying  to  find  A  type  of  training  that  could  just  accelerate  us,

you  know  I  think  you're  gonna  miss  something  at  some  point  like  you're  gonna  miss  a  Technical  detail  that  you  could  have  seen  otherwise  or  like,  you  know  like  Maybe  just  yeah,

I  don't  know  That's  just  that's  just  what  I  think  personally  I'm  not  even  trying  to  shit  on  the  system  or  anything  because  I  use  I  use  aspects  of  it  as  well  Like  I  said,  but  think  it's  about  blending  everything,  you  know,  I'm  like  using  what  we  think  works  I  like  a  you  know  broad  level  But  yeah,

maybe  I  maybe  I'm  Getting  a  tangent  there.  No,  I  mean,  I  think  the  level  that  you're  competing  at  now  where  you're  facing  You're  facing  the  highest  level  guys  top  five  guys  on  a  regular  basis  uh,

you  know,  like  the,  the,  yeah,  I'm  not  even  going  to  bother  your  name  dropping  much  one,  but  like  you're  basically  facing  everyone,  everyone  that,  everyone  that's,  uh,  at  ADCC  regularly.

And  so  the  guy,  the  people  you  face  in  the  gym  are  not  always  going  to  give  you  the  looks  that  you  need  to  prepare  for  those  guys.  And  so  you  need  them  to  turn  into  more  of  a  like,

you  know,  just  a  body  like  a  mannequin  to  form  a  shape  to  drill.  on  rather  than  them  just  because  them  going  live  is  going  to  be  like  so  just  idiosyncratic  and  not  give  you  the  not  give  you  the  looks  you  need  to  prepare  for  that  specific  guy  who's  going  to  like  mold  their  body  a  specific  way.

So  so  yeah,  I  can  see  why  especially  if  you're  yeah,  you're  in  a  gym  that's  not  full  of  high  level  guys  than  drilling  I  think  is  going  back  to  like  repetition  drilling  can  be  really  valuable.

I  agree.  Yeah.  We're  going  to  wrap  up  here  in  just  a  couple  minutes,  probably.  But  a  couple  other  things  I  want  to  know  about  you.

So  you're--  if  people  couldn't  tell  already,  we  are  both  Armenian.  Oh,  yeah.  yeah,  our  nose  is  popping  through  the  screen.  I'm  sure  they  noticed.

Yeah.  What  they  were  also  like,  yeah,  the  literary.  Yeah,  our  last  names.  But  yeah,  but  you,  you,

unlike  me,  you  speak  Armenian,  right?  No,  no,  I  do  not.  No,  don't  don't  start  that.  I  thought  you  told  I  thought  you  told  I  like  learned  a  little  Armenian.

But  they  don't.  don't  don't  don't  tell  the  Armenians  that  I  know  Okay,  I  will  get  Yeah,  I  will  get  lost  in  a  lot  of  conversations  Okay,

you  probably  learn  more  than  me  I  just  learned  that  you  You  gotta  do  them  which  I  just  probably  said  wrong  that  that's  like  a  term  in  dear  myth  that  your  Grand -grandmother  says  like  I  want  to  eat  your  liver  which  is  like,

which  is  a  weird  one  when  it's  literally  translated  but  it's  a  very  like  loving  thing  to  say  to  like  a  child.  It's  like,  I  want  to  eat  you  up,  you  know?  So  did  you  grow  up  like  embedded  in  a  very  Armenian  community  or  were  you  more  around  like  just  American?

- No,  my  dad  kind  of  tried  to  escape  that  a  little  bit  because  his  parents  were  very  Armenian  and...  uh  and  the  community  lived  in  was  very  Armenian  which  wasn't  like  a  bad  thing  necessarily  but  like  just  it's  a  lot  and  it's  a  lot  to  put  a  kid  through  and  he  recognized  that  pretty  early  and  he  didn't  want  his  kids  to  go  through  that  um  he  went  to  you  know  he  went  to  Armenian  school  he  uh  they  spoke  Armenian  at

the  house  um  uh  my  my  uncle  is  his  so  his  brother  is  like  much  more  involved  in  in  Armenian  Armenian  Like  politics  and  stuff.  He  actually  was  on  like  the  front  lines  Defending  Armenia  in  the  90s  when  they  had  the  the  The  I  forget  what  the  war  was  called  or  what  the  battle  is  called  But  they  it  was  like  disputed  territory  They're  fighting  over  and  he  fought  there  So  anyway,

so  it's  just  a  lot.  It's  a  lot  for  a  young  family.  And  my  dad  recognized  that  and  he  tried  to  remove  us  from  that.  So  we  were  kind  of,  I  don't  want  to  say  sheltered  from  it,

but  like,  we  weren't  just  thrown  in  that  because  it's  because  it's  a  lot  for  kids.  It's  a  very  painful  history  as  you  know.  And  it  can  be  it  can  be  a  pretty  over  it  can  be  a  - So  are  you  saying  it  was  from  his  perspective  or  he  thought  it  would  be  overwhelming  in  terms  of  just  like  having  to  juggle  that  while  being  American  or  specifically  something  about  the  flight  of  the  culture  and  the  history  of  the  genocide

and  persecution  over  the  years?  like  is  it  like  was  it  more  just  you  wanted  it  you'd  become  like  immersed  in  American  culture  or  like  I  said  like  more  just  that  it's  intense  yeah  no  it's  just  that  it  was  intense  I  hope  I'm  like  not  like  I  hope  I'm  explaining  it  well  but  like  just  just  that  it  was  a  lot  like  we  were  well  educated  on  everything  but  like  he  didn't  want  us  to  be  like  just  in  in  this  and  something

so,  so  like  to  be  overwhelming  for  a  kid,  you  know,  and,  you  know,  maybe  this  was  like  based  on  his  personal  experiences  a  little  bit  more  than  the  average  Armenian,

but,  you  know,  it  was  just  hard  because  it's  Armenian  school  is  different.  It's  strict,  it's,  you  know,  it's  a  lot  of  those  things  and  Armenian,  and  Armenian  parents  are  very  I'm  sure  you  know  like  they're  very  strict.

Yeah,  and  they're  you  know,  and  they  can  be  a  little  bit  Oh,  you  know  emotional  and  intense  and  stuff  and  I  Open  my  legs.  I  don't  want  to  sound  it.  No,  I'm  just  trying  to  give  I'm  sure  no  I  mean  my  no,

I  mean  my  family  personally  took  a  similar  approach  like  I  was  yeah,  I  was  not  I  didn't  go  to  Armenian  schools  growing  up  and  and  I  We  weren't  really  even  past  like  the  age  of  12  The  Armenian  church  wasn't  didn't  play  a  big  role  and  yeah  in  my  life  but  Yeah,

and  I  also  want  to  tread  carefully  here  Yeah,  sure.  I  don't  know  Part  it's  not  because  I  don't  it's  not  because  like  I'm  scared  of  her  appeals  feelings  or  anything  like  that  It's  just  like  I  I  didn't  didn't,

if  I  didn't  grow  up  in  a  culture,  it's  hard  to  talk  about  it.  I  don't  know  what's  good  or  bad,  what  it's  plus  and  minuses  are.  I  feel  like  I  grew  up  American.

And  I,  and  I  have  to  have  Armenian  friends.  I  have  to  go  to  Armenian  camp,  you  know,  some,  some  years  out  of  the  counselor.  But,  but  yeah,  I  always  felt  like  a  little  bit  like  an  outsider.  I  don't  know.

Luckily,  you  have  like,  you  just  like  like  totally  look  the  part  so  no  one  really  is  gonna  question  you.  - Yeah,  I  can  blend  in.  - They  were  already  kind  of,  yeah,  like,  you  know,

hesitant  about  me,  but  no,  like,  I'm  so  proud  to  be  Armenian.  You  know,  I'll  just  like  say  that,  like,  and  I  feel  like  I  get  a  lot  of  my  better  qualities  and  like  my  fighting  spirit  from  my  Armenian,

you  know,  like  blood.  But,  and  I  truly,  truly  believe  that,  right?  So  like,  I'm  so  grateful  and  so  proud  to  be  Armenian.  But  it  wasn't,

it  wasn't  as  big  a  part  of  my  life  as  it  was  my  dad's  because  he  he  did,  he  felt  how  how  overwhelming  it  could  be  for  for  a  kid,

you  know,  and  it's  not  like  he  said,  like  he  sheltered  us  or  anything,  but  it  was  just  that  that  was  the  we  I  grew  up  in  San  Diego,  I  didn't  grow  up,  you  know,  on  the  East  Coast  and  he  was  from  Worcester,

Massachusetts  or  you  know  anywhere  like  a  larger  Armenian  population  just  most  some  some  partially  by  chance,  but  like  partially  because  you  know  you  want  us  to  You  know  not  feel  like  we  were  different  or  like,

you  know  We  needed  to  to  to  be  to  act  a  certain  way  or  anything,  you  know  Yeah  Yeah  Yeah,  well,  there's  there's  a  lot  more  that  I  want  to  dig  into  but  I  think  I  I  We're  gonna  end  there  so  you  can  get  some  sleep  because  you're  seven  hours  ahead  and  Yeah,

there's  a  lot  yeah,  there's  a  lot  we  didn't  talk  about  but  I  think  you  you  answer  I  think  we  came  to  the  final  answer  for  my  first  question,  which  is  what  what's  your  what  is  your  kill  switch  come  from?  It's  the  Armenian  fighting  spirit  spirit,

you  know,  I  think  so.  Yeah.  I  think  it  does.  Yeah.  Yeah.  So  before  we  get  off,  I  just  want  to  find  out  is  there  any  is  there  anything  you're  focused  on  right  now?

What's  coming  up  next?  Is  there  anything  you'd  like  to  tell  people  about  that  you  have  going  on  in  terms  of  online?  You  mentioned  you  have  a  Patreon  is  please  please  share  anything  you're  working  on  you  appeal  to  know  about?  Oh,

dude,  thank  you.  um  yeah  I  So  yeah  I'm  an  active  competitor  uh  but  I'm  like  I  teach  a  lot  I  do  a  lot  of  seminars  um  I  you  know  try  to  teach  as  much  as  I  can  wherever  I  am  um  and  I  decided  like  a  good  part  a  good  way  to  like  you  know  I  help  share  that  is  uh  through  the  patreon  so  I  have  a  patreon  you  can  um  get  to  the  to  it  through  my  instagram  where  you  just  I  look  up  Keith  recording  patreon  and  uh  And

yeah,  I  post  a  lot  of  technique  videos,  rolling  footage,  competition  footage,  match  breakdowns,  podcasts,  actually,  like  this  little  audio  stuff  that  I  do  on  there.

So  a  lot  of  stuff,  I  have  a  lot  of  fun  with  it.  I'm  looking  to,  you  know,  like  keep  it  going.  It's  a  pretty,  you  know,  it's  a  pretty  fun  thing  for  me  to  do.  And  yeah,

it  really,  really  does  help  support  me.  So  that's  like  a  huge  huge  thing  if  someone's  listening  and  they  want  to  want  to  think  think  of  a  way  to  support  me  That  is  that's  really  big.  It's  it's  really  affordable.

It  starts  at  five  dollars  a  month  But  there's  also  there's  there's  more  tiers  as  well  that  go  up  to  twenty  five  dollars  So  you  can  support  how  whatever  you  can  afford,  you  know,  I  like  to  have  like  a  tier  for  it  and  Yeah,

and  then  beyond  that  I  just  now  or  just  had  announced  today.  I  haven't  a  new  opponent  of  a  title  fight  on  Polaris  next  weekend  in  Wales  My  original  opponent  got  injured  So  I  have  a  new  opponent.

He  is  a  trial  silver  medalist  like  a  European  trial  silver  medalist  from  Scotland  Cam  Donnelly.  So  we're  competing  for  the  66  kilogram  belts  and  then  the  following  weekend  is  trials  trials,

ADCC  trials.  And  I  will  be  doing  those,  hopefully  making  it  to  ADCC.  But  if  not,  I  just  have  plenty  more  goals  this  year,

tons  more  competitions  I'm  going  to  be  doing.  And  I'm  just  really  just  grateful  to  be  getting  opportunities  and  be  doing  what  I'm  doing  and,  you  know,  getting  better.

I'm  just  really,  really  happy  to  see  my  gaming.  game  improving  and  feel  like  I'm  actually  getting  better  It's  just  I'm  such  a  rewarding  feeling  and  whether  I  win  or  lose  in  competition  As  long  as  I'm  pursuing  that  So  so  anyways,

that's  you  caught  up  Okay,  nice.  Yeah,  man.  It's  rewarding  for  me  to  watch.  I  learned  something  every  time  watch  you  compete  I  was  watching  some  of  your  footage  before  this  this  For  this  conversation  and  I  encourage  my  student  all  my  students  to  watch  film  study  you  as  much  as  possible.

Get  on  your  Patreon,  because  you're  one  of  the  most  technical  grapplers,  I  think,  that  we  have  in  some  plan  system  and  pretty  much  in  the  world  in  terms  of  distance  management,

in  terms  of  angles,  in  terms  of  mixing  leg  attacks  with  upper  body  attacks,  top  game,  bottom  game  wrestling,  like  you're  men.  I'm  thinking  of  things  I  wanted  to  talk  about.

but  I,  I  purposely  want  to  cut  off.  So  we  have  a  reason  to  talk,  talk  about  much  more  things  next  time.  Cause  I  want  to,  I'll  do  it  anytime  I'd  love  to.  All  right,  man.  I'm  looking  forward  to  it.

You  have  a  good  barrister  day.  Thank  you.  Thank  you  very  much.  Thank  you  for  tuning  into  the  day  Slayer  podcast.  If  you  enjoyed  it,  please  leave  a  five  star  review  on  whichever  app  you're  listening.  Have  an  enchanted  rest  of  your  day.